Will admit I did click through to read due to the cover photo. Which is a famous stage bomb photo from punks camera king Edward Colver (maybe photos should be credited).
I think everything you have written is on the money, people will now transform themselves to purely share online and will be a different person in public.
At its roots being a part of a scene or sub-culture kept you within that circle and made for a community, that has unfortunately lost some of its charm with social media.
Hey Marc! Thanks for taking the time to read and share your thoughts! I really appreciate your insight, here.
There’s something special about the way subcultures used to thrive in real, tangible communities before the digital age reshaped everything. The shift to online personas has definitely changed how people engage with scenes, often prioritising performance over genuine connection.
And great spot on the cover photo—Edward Colver’s work is legendary. Probs worth a credit!
At which point will the delineation (definition?) of sub-culture be contingent on culture being unaware of it? Similarly, or alternatively, when is culture conflated with the platform? And so simply being part of the platform, "on the platform," of culture strips away and "sub" classification? Or maybe I am confusing "sub" and "counter." Is sub, as a diminutive offshoot (even an "alternative" one) simply part (and parcel) of the larger culture by this definition? If yes, then the question that matters at all in this conversation is the one involving the "counter" designation, not "sub" ("alternative" or not.) In which case counter-culture simply cannot, by definition of being "off-platform," exist on Tik Tok and cannot be considered a sub-culture at all. Thought possibly it might start as a sub-culture, in one way and another, but the unruly and amalgamizing liberty of counter-culture must certainly feed from multiple sources to break it from being any homogenized "sub." So is counter-culture always a splintered version, necessarily anarchic in origin? This seems to be definitional as well. Anyway, I guess I'm getting to making a point, or stating an opinion, that any "alternative subculture" that exists on Tik Tok, a platform that flattens any cultural proposition upon arrival, or rather engulfs it, is a non starter in the relevance category. At this point only counter-culture will really do.
Yoooo. Thanks for engaging, here. You’re right to point out that platforms like TikTok flatten subcultures by making them widely accessible, thus stripping them of their "alternative" status. A subculture loses its edge once it's commodified or absorbed by the mainstream, which is what happens when it hits a platform like TikTok. In contrast, counter-culture exists to challenge the dominant culture and is often "off-platform" or outside mainstream control. TikTok, by homogenizing content, can’t sustain ‘true’ counter-culture, it dilutes what makes it rebellious. So, only a counter-culture can exist meaningfully on TikTok, while subcultures are absorbed into the mainstream.
Yeah, that's it, I think. So anything on Tik Tok isn't a "sub" culture at all (alternative or otherwise) but rather just part of the wider cultural stream. At least that which is reflected on Tik Tok. I guess I'm stumbling along to your point that it has to be happening elsewhere (but what do we call that now, it Tik Tok is any arbiter of cullture?) Tik Tok is a shadowy, adulterated mirror image of a fragmented aspiration to a subculture, not the actual thing itself. It's hard to understand just what's happening on Tik Tok and spaces like that, for sure. It's not killing subculture as it's not really partaking in subculture in any way, I guess would be the inference. On the other side, if culture is indeed "platformed" in a substantial way (enough to kill its "subs") anything happening outside of that then starts to drift into counterculture simply thanks to its location. I don't know. The vocabulary here gets as muddy as it ought to be, I suppose.
Yeah, TikTok’s just a hollow reflection of what once felt like subculture, if subculture even matters anymore. Everything’s diluted, fragmented, and endlessly recycled, hard to even call it culture at this point 😬
Wow! Commodifying alt-fashion also speaks to the loss of our human curiosity — how social media makes us forget the ‘why?’ When consumers are being sold a product, witnessing it as a trend, it feels secondary to pull the thread beyond the price tag. The history of fashion is something I’m personally craving knowledge about, and this essay was a great reminder that everything has something that can be expanded on. Whether it be a pair of coloured tights or a woolly-grey sweatshirt, there’s a thread waiting to be pulled. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for this thoughtful comment! That urge to pull the thread and ask “why” is exactly what keeps fashion alive as a cultural force, not just a commodity. It’s encouraging to hear others are craving that deeper context too.
The larger effect of the “reduction of friction” principle of UX being part of the mass culture platforms is that it trickles to the “content”🤮 they host. There’s no earned affinity through chance and intentional effort that forms “scene cred” — crate digging, watching unknown openers, learning how to properly sand a fender, etc. These are a form of cultural capital (deep subcultural knowledge through a form of !participation! builds the traits which align one to the others that serve as barriers to entry and create value through scarcity). Googling or following does not count as participation. Gatekeeping (and niche taste) is demonized, but only in that it’s a way of throttling a market, which is really all society wants. It’s irrelevant to the grander scheme if you buy virgin audiophile grade vinyl or an eternal Spotify lease, so long as the market share of Music grows without end. Again: music, art, etc are now the abstracted “content”. The more is only merrier for the venture capitalist and now the accounting is simpler. We see micro trends develop on TikTok as the solution to stripmining subculture— reduce their value to 0 then replace them as soon as the next wave of impulse buys are available to take their place.
And the reaction to this might be a subculture that looks completely different - like what we saw with the norm core movement. Or groups forming around not using devices and social. If the old subcultures no longer offer an IRL community connection or shared values, then where and how are they creating it? I also think in the real world the styles serve as a way to signal your values and find like minds. They exist beyond TikTok for the more invested people. Maybe TikTok is just a starting place - much like how creators turn a long form recipe into a :15 summary video you can’t actually follow.
It does seem like subcultures evolve in response to the dominant trends, often as a form of resistance or differentiation. The idea that some groups might reject devices and social media as a way to foster real-world connections is especially interesting to me. Style as a signal of values and belonging has always been important, and while TikTok might serve as an entry point, deeper engagement likely happens elsewhere. It raises the question of where these communities are truly being built beyond the algorithm-driven discovery platforms.
Will admit I did click through to read due to the cover photo. Which is a famous stage bomb photo from punks camera king Edward Colver (maybe photos should be credited).
I think everything you have written is on the money, people will now transform themselves to purely share online and will be a different person in public.
At its roots being a part of a scene or sub-culture kept you within that circle and made for a community, that has unfortunately lost some of its charm with social media.
Hey Marc! Thanks for taking the time to read and share your thoughts! I really appreciate your insight, here.
There’s something special about the way subcultures used to thrive in real, tangible communities before the digital age reshaped everything. The shift to online personas has definitely changed how people engage with scenes, often prioritising performance over genuine connection.
And great spot on the cover photo—Edward Colver’s work is legendary. Probs worth a credit!
At which point will the delineation (definition?) of sub-culture be contingent on culture being unaware of it? Similarly, or alternatively, when is culture conflated with the platform? And so simply being part of the platform, "on the platform," of culture strips away and "sub" classification? Or maybe I am confusing "sub" and "counter." Is sub, as a diminutive offshoot (even an "alternative" one) simply part (and parcel) of the larger culture by this definition? If yes, then the question that matters at all in this conversation is the one involving the "counter" designation, not "sub" ("alternative" or not.) In which case counter-culture simply cannot, by definition of being "off-platform," exist on Tik Tok and cannot be considered a sub-culture at all. Thought possibly it might start as a sub-culture, in one way and another, but the unruly and amalgamizing liberty of counter-culture must certainly feed from multiple sources to break it from being any homogenized "sub." So is counter-culture always a splintered version, necessarily anarchic in origin? This seems to be definitional as well. Anyway, I guess I'm getting to making a point, or stating an opinion, that any "alternative subculture" that exists on Tik Tok, a platform that flattens any cultural proposition upon arrival, or rather engulfs it, is a non starter in the relevance category. At this point only counter-culture will really do.
Yoooo. Thanks for engaging, here. You’re right to point out that platforms like TikTok flatten subcultures by making them widely accessible, thus stripping them of their "alternative" status. A subculture loses its edge once it's commodified or absorbed by the mainstream, which is what happens when it hits a platform like TikTok. In contrast, counter-culture exists to challenge the dominant culture and is often "off-platform" or outside mainstream control. TikTok, by homogenizing content, can’t sustain ‘true’ counter-culture, it dilutes what makes it rebellious. So, only a counter-culture can exist meaningfully on TikTok, while subcultures are absorbed into the mainstream.
Yeah, that's it, I think. So anything on Tik Tok isn't a "sub" culture at all (alternative or otherwise) but rather just part of the wider cultural stream. At least that which is reflected on Tik Tok. I guess I'm stumbling along to your point that it has to be happening elsewhere (but what do we call that now, it Tik Tok is any arbiter of cullture?) Tik Tok is a shadowy, adulterated mirror image of a fragmented aspiration to a subculture, not the actual thing itself. It's hard to understand just what's happening on Tik Tok and spaces like that, for sure. It's not killing subculture as it's not really partaking in subculture in any way, I guess would be the inference. On the other side, if culture is indeed "platformed" in a substantial way (enough to kill its "subs") anything happening outside of that then starts to drift into counterculture simply thanks to its location. I don't know. The vocabulary here gets as muddy as it ought to be, I suppose.
Yeah, TikTok’s just a hollow reflection of what once felt like subculture, if subculture even matters anymore. Everything’s diluted, fragmented, and endlessly recycled, hard to even call it culture at this point 😬
Please tell me more about the ‘deep ideological underpinnings’ of emo that millennials were knowledgeable about back in 2007, lol
Wrap your eyeballs around this: https://youtu.be/TWG5JLC9kUA. We’re not talking about My Chemical Romance, here. It’s way more nuanced than that..
Wow! Commodifying alt-fashion also speaks to the loss of our human curiosity — how social media makes us forget the ‘why?’ When consumers are being sold a product, witnessing it as a trend, it feels secondary to pull the thread beyond the price tag. The history of fashion is something I’m personally craving knowledge about, and this essay was a great reminder that everything has something that can be expanded on. Whether it be a pair of coloured tights or a woolly-grey sweatshirt, there’s a thread waiting to be pulled. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for this thoughtful comment! That urge to pull the thread and ask “why” is exactly what keeps fashion alive as a cultural force, not just a commodity. It’s encouraging to hear others are craving that deeper context too.
I just wrote about this subject and your angle felt like we could have an amazing discussion together aha. Really enjoyed reading you
The larger effect of the “reduction of friction” principle of UX being part of the mass culture platforms is that it trickles to the “content”🤮 they host. There’s no earned affinity through chance and intentional effort that forms “scene cred” — crate digging, watching unknown openers, learning how to properly sand a fender, etc. These are a form of cultural capital (deep subcultural knowledge through a form of !participation! builds the traits which align one to the others that serve as barriers to entry and create value through scarcity). Googling or following does not count as participation. Gatekeeping (and niche taste) is demonized, but only in that it’s a way of throttling a market, which is really all society wants. It’s irrelevant to the grander scheme if you buy virgin audiophile grade vinyl or an eternal Spotify lease, so long as the market share of Music grows without end. Again: music, art, etc are now the abstracted “content”. The more is only merrier for the venture capitalist and now the accounting is simpler. We see micro trends develop on TikTok as the solution to stripmining subculture— reduce their value to 0 then replace them as soon as the next wave of impulse buys are available to take their place.
I loved the ‘watching unknown openers’ reference.. Those are all the beautiful bits not experienced online.. Every act was an ‘unknown opener’ once..
Probably but no it hasn’t
Next subculture is Anti-Social media.
Couldn’t agree more. Big tech is essentially the Legion of Doom, and people are sick of it..
And the reaction to this might be a subculture that looks completely different - like what we saw with the norm core movement. Or groups forming around not using devices and social. If the old subcultures no longer offer an IRL community connection or shared values, then where and how are they creating it? I also think in the real world the styles serve as a way to signal your values and find like minds. They exist beyond TikTok for the more invested people. Maybe TikTok is just a starting place - much like how creators turn a long form recipe into a :15 summary video you can’t actually follow.
It does seem like subcultures evolve in response to the dominant trends, often as a form of resistance or differentiation. The idea that some groups might reject devices and social media as a way to foster real-world connections is especially interesting to me. Style as a signal of values and belonging has always been important, and while TikTok might serve as an entry point, deeper engagement likely happens elsewhere. It raises the question of where these communities are truly being built beyond the algorithm-driven discovery platforms.